We talk a lot about racism here but we don’t talk quite as often about colorism. Today I’ve invited Federico Erebia, author of the forthcoming novel Pedro & Daniel, to Bookish Brews to talk to us about what colorism is and especially colorism in fiction to help us push for a better world. But first, as always, let’s look at Pedro & Daniel!

Advanced Praise for Pedro & Daniel

“Pedro & Daniel broke my heart with its portrayal of abuse, colorism, homophobia . . . it lifted my spirts with the brothers’ distinct personalities, resilience, hope, and indomitable brotherly love. It’s a stirring LGBTQIA+ novel for the ages.”

— Yolimari García, author, editor, blogger

“Pedro & Daniel is a beautifully written and emotion evoking book. Erebia masterfully relays the tale of two brothers and their unbreakable bond through overwhelming hardship . . . you will find yourself connecting with this deeply moving book.”

— Andrew Hacket, author, educator, blogger

Interview with Federico Erebia

Amanda: Hi Federico! Thank you so much for joining us here on Bookish Brews. I’m so excited to chat with you today about colorism, especially colorism in fiction. But first, please introduce yourself and your upcoming novel Pedro & Daniel!

Federico Erebia: Hello everyone! I’m so happy to be here. I am a retired physician, woodworker, author, and illustrator. I live outside of Boston with my husband and our two fur-babies.

Pedro & Daniel (Levine Querido, June 6) is a fictionalized retelling of my relationship with my younger brother who died thirty years ago of AIDS. The novel follows Pedro and Daniel–who are gay, neurodivergent, Mexican Americans–from kindergarten, through their teen years, until they are young men. They face significant struggles in and out of their home.

The novel addresses many social issues including intrafamilial colorism, homophobia, and domestic violence. This combination is rarely seen in literature. Equally unusual: their mother is the abusive parent.

Despite the significant abuses they endure, there is a lot of joy and laughter in Pedro & Daniel. My brother was one of the funniest people I know. I believe I brought him back to life within the pages of my book. Our shared experiences, both good and bad, are the glue that bonded us.

Amanda: I’m so excited to read Pedro & Daniel! Since we’re talking about colorism today, let’s start with the basics. What is colorism and how does it present in our world?

Federico: Colorism is similar to racism, but there are significant differences. In racism, people suffer prejudice and discrimination because of their race or ethnicity. In colorism, people are ranked according to skin tone and/or facial or physical features: light skin is favored over darker skin; Eurocentric facial and physical features are favored over those that appear Indigenous or African.

Another key difference between colorism and racism is that people from the same race or ethnicity may hold colorist views against others within their own race or ethnicity. Consequently, colorism can fracture families whose members have different skin tones or physical characteristics.

The concept known as reverse colorism is a symptom of the larger problem, but it is not the same as colorism: lighter-skinned people may experience bullying and ostracization because they are lighter-skinned, but they maintain the privileges afforded to them because of their skin tone; that systemic privilege is the foundation of colorism.

Amanda: How does colorism play a role in Pedro & Daniel?

Federico: In my novel, Pedro and Daniel’s mother holds colorist views. She is a lighter-skinned Mexican woman who disparages Pedro because of his darker-skin tone, like that of his father, her husband. Her brother has similarly biased views, and Pedro feels the sting of his uncle’s words as well.

Eventually, there are revelations that might explain her complicated upbringing and her early exposure to racist and colorist views. Children learn to be racist, or colorist, when they see and hear discrimination at an early age.

It should not be surprising that hateful words can inflict wounds on a child, that those wounds may not fully heal, or they may become painful scars. The reader will see how Pedro is affected by colorism.

Amanda: How does racism play a role in Pedro & Daniel?

Federico: There are several instances where Pedro and Daniel experience racism from friends, school staff, and even the police. Sometimes society gives children a “free pass” to use racial slurs because they are kids who are “kidding around.” But the effect is exponential when it comes from an adult, especially an adult with power.

The incident between Pedro and the police actually happened to me when I was ten years old. I had experienced colorism, and episodes of racism, but I learned an early lesson about systemic racism when it came from a person in a position of power, like those police officers. I’m curious what folks will think when they read that scene. The racism and discrimination of that incident might be subtle to the white gaze, but its effect has persisted within me for decades.

Amanda: I’m so glad you’re addressing these issues in your novel. So we know what colorism is, but where did it come from? How long have we been aware of it?

Federico: The answer to this question is interesting, and not entirely clear.

Much of what I know about colorism is based on Mexico’s history with it. When Europeans arrived in the Americas in the 1500s, they instilled a white supremacy mentality wherever they went, leading to the development of a social caste system based on skin tone. There is no evidence of colorism on these three continents before Europeans arrived. In Mexico, folks with darker-skin tones, or with Indigenous or African facial or physical features, have been easy to single out for discrimination over the last five hundred years.

There is, however, historical evidence of colorism in Asia, before Europeans arrived there. Literature and the caste system showing lighter-skinned preference in East Asia and South Asia precede colonialism.

We know that colorist views can affect every aspect of a person’s life, including access to education, employment, health care, and other resources; there are income discrepancies; there are associated mental health issues; consequently, life expectancy is lower for darker-skinned individuals, when all other factors are the same. It’s important to point out that darker-skinned women bear the brunt of colorist discrimination.

Just like many Americans deny that we have a problem with race in America, many in Mexico deny that they have a problem with color. The prevailing sentiment is that Mexico is a land of mixed races, that everyone is the same, they are all Mestizo. But in reality, people are not treated the same. Mexico’s refusal to acknowledge their societal colorism is part of the problem.

Colorism in America is even less understood or acknowledged. Here, there is a systemic, general colorism in all facets of life. But we have pervasive colorism within the various races as well. Colorism within the Black community has an insidious colonialist root: White enslavers segregated Black people according to skin tone. Those with lighter skin were afforded distinct privileges. This prejudicial system had many direct and indirect effects, and some persist today.

Amanda: Thank you so much for the background! Why is it important to address colorism and racism in literature?

Federico: Honestly, I don’t know of another book that deals with intrafamilial colorism, homophobia, and domestic violence. I’m already hearing from readers who had never seen themselves in a main character until they read Pedro & Daniel. We need more books that address these topics honestly and openly.

I think readers of all backgrounds could identify with Pedro and Daniel, could fall in love with them, and root for them. My entire childhood, and most of my adult life, I only read books about white, straight people. I could relate to the characters on many levels. Similarly, diverse books with diverse topics can be enjoyed by folks of all backgrounds.

A lot of research has shown how important it is for children to see themselves in their books, on TV, and in movies. It’s also vital for kids to see others who are unlike themselves: kids from different backgrounds, races, ethnicities, socioeconomics, and family structures.

When there are fewer unknowns, there is less to fear.

Amanda: There’s never one right answer to this, but what are some ways we can approach the topic of colorism and racism in fiction responsibly?

Federico: In Pedro & Daniel, I give some historical perspective and context to those who are colorist or racist. However, I do not excuse the effects of their colorism or racism. If we as a society can learn to identify what leads to these views, perhaps we can someday raise a generation without these views.

We know that most folks learn these discriminatory ideas when they are young.

The book banning movement, laws against teaching color race theory, and the refusal to question erroneous “historical facts,” are regressive attempts to double down on defending the status quo. We won’t evolve as a society, if these continue.

Amanda: What is the impact of writing about experiences of colorism and racism in fiction? How can we use fiction to help society make progress in the right direction?

Federico: The impact of making folks aware of these issues is potentially significant. Sometimes, just learning that there is a problem, that it has a name, can be eye-opening.

Many folks haven’t heard of colorism. They may be vaguely aware of the concept from watching movies and TV series. For instance, most telenovelas show darker-skinned latinos as servants or in lesser roles. Lighter-skinned latinos are usually the protagonists, in positions of power and wealth. Many probably don’t question this because it is how it’s always been.

Darker-skinned folks can be happy, healthy, and successful. They can have similar goals and dreams as everyone else. Representing them as main characters might help change misperceptions and misrepresentations.

Amanda: What can we do to push for more awareness about the depth and harm of colorism?

Federico: That is an important question. As with most Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging issues, it usually falls on marginalized communities to do the work, to educate others.

As part of the Content/Trigger Warnings I wrote for Pedro & Daniel, I listed organizations, websites, or phone numbers for organizations that might help folks with what triggers them. I couldn’t find any recommendations for organizations that deal with the issues related to colorism.

It would help to have a national organization, a trusted source of information, with colorism as its focus. It could develop programs, webinars, handbooks, videos, and other educational materials, and/or a national campaign to bring attention to the issues. A piecemeal, grassroots approach isn’t as effective, but it’s better than nothing.

Amanda: Before you go, is there anything else you’d like to share with us today?

Federico: Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to discuss colorism. It’s okay if your readers weren’t aware of it before, but perhaps they will start to see how pervasive it is. I would ask folks to resist efforts to silence, erase, or ban marginalized folks, or their books.

There are many recognizable slogans to keep in mind: We Need Diverse Books; Books Save Lives; Kids Should See Themselves in Books [and other media]; Stories are Windows, Mirrors and/or Sliding Glass Doors.

I will have opportunities for folks to win copies of Pedro & Daniel in the coming months. For details, they can follow me at https://twitter.com/FedericoErebia

For more about Pedro & Daniel, you can visit my website: https://FJEbooks.com/pedro–daniel